Shooting War Gen-We Getting A Grip Wolves In Sheep's Clothing

T31322

Battle In Seattle
Forum : Human Rights
R343932
7 months ago
Liam

Thanks GNN Users “Beagle” for some nice edit suggestions, Manu and others for comments, and all for votes.

R343933
7 months ago
Manu

This article deserves to be where it is. I commend you for it.

So, where has the threat actually gone?
How can it vanish into thin air?
Was the Durban Declaration wrong?
“The Durban declaration has been signed by over 5,000 people, including Nobel prizewinners, directors of leading research institutions, scientific academies and medical societies, notably the US National Academy of Sciences, the US Institute of Medicine, Max Planck institutes, the European Molecular Biology Organization, the Pasteur Institute in Paris, the Royal Society of London, the AIDS Society of India and the National Institute of Virology in South Africa. In addition, thousands of individual scientists and doctors have signed, including many from the countries bearing the greatest burden of the epidemic. Signatories are of MD, PhD level or equivalent, although scientists working for commercial companies were asked not to sign.”

Was does Mr. De Cock leave all this?

R343934
7 months ago
Truthcansuk

That was a good read.

Thanks, Liam…

Post Modified: 06/12/08 15:29:47
R343935
7 months ago
dikweed
R343937
7 months ago
notdansavage

Ok, let’s get this straight.

No heterosexual AIDS epidemic. Unless you’re black. OK, makes sense.

Good thing I don’t dig into the AIDS literature and think for myself.

Well, gotta run. I’m gay and need to get tested. Ta’!

R343942
7 months ago
MrsBlobby

“Oh woe is me” cried doctor Moore
“My macaque AIDS model out the door
They just aren’t black or gay or poor
My funding’s pulled; of that I’m sure”

“My whole life spent on HIV
The party’s over don’t you see?
I’m left without a pot to pee
No job, no future, woe is me”

R343944
7 months ago
notdansavage

MrsBlobby,

I think Moore is going to be left holding the bag.

Peter Piot’s stepping down. Watch for other key figures to do the same very soon.

But, Mr. Moore doesn’t strike me as smart enough to get out of this before the shit hits the fan.

R343950
7 months ago
Chi

I’m shocked. I’ll have to read that all again. I feel disorientated — I’m drowning in an ocean lies.

R343954
7 months ago
Szamko
R343955
7 months ago
Manu

Now The Guardian too LOL I can’t believe the Guardian printed that!

Seems like journalism is cleaning up its house. Opening up the windows to let that old 25 year stench of mendacity out…

R343959
7 months ago
Liam

That’s a hell of a thing in the Guardian. I guess a lot of people have been sitting on their hands, biting their tongues, and waiting for a shoe to drop. Save that Guardian piece for safe-keeping. I’ll post it on my blog.

Looks like the band’s playing on, but a different tune, all at once.

Amazing. Abandon ship, everybody.

R343960
7 months ago
Liam

You know, what’s the NYTimes gonna do with its libels of me, of Celia, Duesberg, the rest? What are they gonna do?

What’s ‘sceptic’ Skeptic magazine gonna do? Any bets they offer no apologies at all, but pretend that they ‘always thought this, really, deep down’ – or that it’s really ‘only a slight difference?’

What are they gonna rename “aids” – “Afro-GRID?” It’s beyond self-satire at this point. What an amazing turn of events…

R343963
7 months ago
notdansavage

That’s a hell of a thing in the Guardian. I guess a lot of people have been sitting on their hands, biting their tongues, and waiting for a shoe to drop.

I agree.

Unfortunately, as far as apologies go from the NYTimes or anybody else for that matter, don’t hold your breath.

R343964
7 months ago
Liam

...

Post Modified: 06/12/08 19:38:26
R343970
7 months ago
bacchus

We used to have a science in the early 20th Century, that similarly was able to pick the unfit out of risk groups – it was called Eugenics

Post Modified: 06/12/08 21:49:00
R343980
7 months ago
Watson
R343981
7 months ago
zephid

I search “Hyams KC et al. HIV infection in a non-drug abusing prostitute population. Scand J Infect Dis. 1989” on Google and all I get is a study that’s almost word for word except they were investigating Hepatitis B. It seems to have been a year off though, so I looked through the archives for the Scandinavian Journal of Infectious Diseases in 1989. Volume 21 Issue 3 in 1989 has a listing, but it is listed as under Letter to the Editors. Odd.

Then again, I don’t really care. I’m just bored. Does someone happen to have the text for that particular citation freely available on the Internet?

Post Modified: 06/13/08 00:14:27
R343983
7 months ago
Beagle17

Liam’s article doesn’t mention this, but one of the freakiest aspects of all this, and it is something that was raised by Celia Farber a lot in her outstanding reporting in Spin (and Rolling Stone too I believe) many years ago, is that the prescribed “treatment” for an HIV-positive test result is ARV therapy. These cytotoxic “cocktails” had extreme effects, probably causing in large part the ‘AIDS victim’ appearance. Supposedly the newer drugs “aren’t as bad” but of course AIDS was still real; it had become accepted as axiomatic. But look at this picture from the standpoint of Africa – and the possibility of conspiracy elements is indeed frightening – an HIV+ diagnosis based on a single flawed test could lead to administration of drugs that would quite likely kill a person already suffering from typical African maladies like Hepatitis and malaria.

So the “diagnosis” becomes a self-fulfilling prophesy. Let’s see if this washes out making Mbeki look good and Mugabe look a bit less crazy.

R343984
7 months ago
thegrowingwriter

Great work liam… Thanks so much…
I organized a show today in correlation
on the fallacies of testing and the dangers of the drugs
not to mention the fascist approaches to positive mothers and thier children

Jeff Farias
www.1480kphx.com
June 12th podcast at about 1:30 into the show…
I will be shooting for more media interviews regarding this topic!
Thanks for your well written summary that exposes the truth in the spin!
Jes

R343986
7 months ago
Beagle17

I Dugg this, but it doesn’t seem to appear in the connected link under the article.

Her is the Digg link

R344001
7 months ago
Liam

Answer to request for Hyams, et al survey on Tijuana prostitutes:

Slightly longer excerpt:

“In order to determine whether prostitutes operating outside of areas of high drug abuse have equally elevated rates of infection, 354 prostitutes were surveyed in Tijuana, Mexico… None of the 354 [blood] samples from female prostitutes was positive for HIV-1 or HIV-2.

The female prostitutes (mean age 29 years. range 18-49) had been active prostitutes for an average of 4.2 years and reported an average of 4.1 partners per week.

Condoms were used by 59% of prostitutes but for less than half of their sexual contacts.

Only 4 female prostitutes (1%) admitted to ever having used intravenous drugs.

Infection with HIV was not found in this prostitute population despite the close proximity to neighboring San Diego, CA, which has a high incidence of diagnosed cases of AIDS, and to Los Angeles, which has a reported 4% prevalence of HIV infection in prostitutes.”

They go on to say – and this ought to be telling – that these PROSTITUTES who have sex without condoms 41% of the time (and then only half that in practice) maybe aren’t “positive” because…

you ready?

Because ‘maybe’ they’re not exposed to “RISK GROUPS.”

Who’s that?

Homosexual Men and i.v. drug users.

Some goddamn sex disease, huh?

But it’s all in the testing. Antibody tests love to react with antibodies – and drug abuse produces lots and lots and lots of antibodies.

The medical students call it hypergammaglobulinaemia. A lot of gamma globulin, IgM, immune-system proteins, antibodies, etc.

You’re sick, you have a lot of these. You have malaria, TB, you have a lot of these. You have diarrhea, sepsis, you have a lot of these. Drug use, alcohol abuse, starving to death, being exposed to many toxins, you have a lot of these.

So when the ‘hiv tests’ come up reactive all over the place in sick people, healthy people, mice, dogs, milkmaids, goat serum, etc… well, they have to decide before or after the fact, what the test is gonna mean. And that’s the whole “risk group” run-around.

A gay man’s antibodies ‘weigh more’ in the minds of Aids researchers, than a straight man’s. And that’s just how this system works. And if you believe it indicates real infection in one, then you can’t excuse the other. And that means that all false positives are really true, and that there are probably billions of “hiv infected” people walking around, who just don’t know it.

On the other hand, if your go with the lowest common denominator, the hardest logic, and you say that you can’t accuse one person of being “positive” if the identical result means nothing in someone else, then no one has ever been “hiv positive.”

That’s why the test manufacturers work so hard in the small print, telling you there are no standards, that the diagnosis must always be made “clinically,” and not based on any test result. They tell you this, so you can’t sue them to ruin for non-diagnostic, but life-ending test results.

Look up Audrey Seranno’s case from last year – she couldn’t sue the manufacturer for their fake test, she did sue the doctor and hospital for their fake diagnosis, however, and won.

It’s an absolutely transparent lie, it’s right out there in the open, and it’s cracking open, at this very moment.

Post Modified: 06/13/08 05:07:26
R344047
7 months ago
zephid

Thanks for indulging me Liam. Forgot to mention it earlier (what with everyone already saying it), but great article.

R344068
7 months ago
Number5Toad

pretty great read, Liam, and thanks for it

still can’t keep from laughing every time i read Dr. de Cock though…

R344131
7 months ago
GWHunta

Nice,

Peace

R344147
7 months ago
MrsBlobby

Notdansavage I agree. Moore wasn’t standing in the right queue when the brains were being handed out – he was outside sweeping sun off the road (West Indian saying). He will soon be the lone rabid voice howling into the void. Finally, after much pompous posturing, he will realise he stands alone on the deck. Let’s just hope he can’t swim.

R344170
7 months ago
Manu

Vitamins are unlawful for Africans. Toxic ‘black-box” label medication is good.
AIDTruth carries this story too…JP Moore seems happy.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7453449.stm

R344174
7 months ago
BurningMonk

hope to read more from you soon, dude, good work

as i said earlier, i don’t know if i agree with everything you say, i lack the insight needed to make that judgement, but i do strongly believe in a dissenting voice

you’re that voice

is there somebody here on GNN willing to write an article challenging Liam’s pov?

maybe we should invite this guy

My name is Nick Bennett (so when I post as “Bennett” I am posting under my real name). I am a double-doctor, MD and PhD. My PhD research was in the molecular biology of HIV. I’ve debated the HIV/AIDS dissidents since mid-1998, and frankly I consider that a better qualification to be here doing this than anything else. I have never received funding from any pharmaceutical company that makes HIV antivirals. I do not get and have not ever been paid to do this.

He and Liam have quite a history together…

R344197
7 months ago
Liam

Actually, “monk”, you and I have quite a history together, whatever that means.

Your comment is irrelevant to the questions in the piece. You’re sewing personal intrigue where there is none. If you want to argue, be a grown-up and argue. I’ll take your questions. Nobody at GNN has ever agreed to debate me on this. They always claim, after denigrating, that they’re not expert enough.

I’m just a goddamn journalist, a very independent one. I’ve got no special pedigree. You want to debate me, you have my email. No worries, we’ll set it up.

If that’s what you’re going for. But I think what you’re trying to do is to change the subject. The subject at hand is the WHO’s admission that this thing is over, and never was going to be a problem for the majority of wealthy, well-fed, white, straight people.

You want to debate that, call your friend de Cock, and debate him.

ps – Nick Bennett is on the board of Aidstruth, they’re a pharma cabal, they threaten people’s jobs, get people fired, get stories pulled from the press, and force nations – that’s South Africa, to ban vitamin trials for sick people. Ban them, legally. That’s Nick Bennett, Nathan Geffen, and the rest of this mafia.

And the joke is, they won’t debate. We’ve begged them. Begged. Begged them for open debate. “No, we don’t debate your kind.” Is their constant answer.

You see what you get when you ask. Go try.

R344205
7 months ago
Ruff_Shot

You’re sewing personal intrigue where there is none. If you want to argue, be a grown-up and argue.

Nick Bennett is a big, fat, liar. And a coward.

How very grown-up! More personal intrigue sewn here by you.

Nobody at GNN has ever agreed to debate me...

Huh?

Wait…what?

But I think what you’re trying to do is to change the subject.

Hey, this is GNN...we will change subjects as we damn well please.

Good day, sir!

R344207
7 months ago
Liam

Again, is that somebody wanting to debate any particular issue? The point of the article, again, is that the WHO has now admitted that they’ve to everyone for two decades.

You want a debate, you arrange it. You linked to three blogs. What does that mean to you? What does that mean to the story that the WHO has lied to you for 20 years?

Two of the threads you linked are people who refuse to debate me. One of them won’t even use his real name, like yourself.

The issue here is that you won’t talk about the WHO admission. You want personal denigration, rather than hearing the issue head on and thinking about it.

You two nameless bloggers above, who won’t use your real identities, want to be as important to the story as Kevin de Cock’s announcement. You’re not. Not even close.

I’ll still make time to answer any questions you have that arise from research. But I don’t see any.

You’ve been lied to for 20 years or more, from the public institutions you’ve chosen to trust for health directive and policy. They’re now issuing a quiet mea culpa. What does that mean to you? What does it meant to the world?

Post Modified: 06/14/08 13:35:08
R344209
7 months ago
Liam

PS – some of what you’ve linked, nameless blogger, is me defending myself from people who attack but who will not allow me to respond. I have a right, forever, whether you like it or not, to defend myself, and people, like those you linked to, who feel they have a right to attack, but to answer nothing, and to refuse debate, are, in my opinion, absolutely cowards.

I think that’s the definition of cowardice. To attack and to refuse to allow response? Cowardice.

So, what is it that you’re after, if not to change the subject?

You’ve been lied to for 20 years. Have you defended this lie? What does that mean to you?

Do you believe that Africans, gay men and drug users all pass a supervirus, that can’t be tested for with any standard measure, while well-fed, hetero-happy people don’t?

I’ll debate that point with anyone in a position of power in the Aids paradigm, who wishes to come forward, in real name, in a public forum.

If you can arrange it, it will be done.

R344211
7 months ago
BurningMonk

dude, my post wasn’t an attack on you, reread it

chill

all I want is a lively debate, I googled “AIDS dissent” I found that blog and was surprised to see your name on the first page

that’s all

de Cock isn’t my friend, don’t know the guy, never met him, all I said is that his name is pretty common here in Belgium and that making two jokes about the name was one to many, IMO

again, that’s all

relax

take a deep breath

R344212
7 months ago
BurningMonk

heh, totally forgot about the “GNN debate club”

...

R344213
7 months ago
BurningMonk

You two nameless bloggers above,

you know my name

what’s up, Liam?

sorry if I offended you or something

R344215
7 months ago
Liam

Offended? Don’t worry about it. But I’d like to keep this on the research. That’s where it gets away from quickly, when you cite people like Bennett, who attacks but will not debate, and whose group suppresses scientific research and inquiry.

So, back to the questions – twenty years of very Christian condom-nation for fear of absolute and unavoidable death – and it was just some bad advertising? No, it is the scientific scandal of the 20/21st century.

So, that’s debate. The subject is the article above. No one needs special dispensation to figure out what “We observed no seroconversions” means, or implies. No one needs special authority to understand what “this test has no standard” (‘nor this one, nor this one’) means.

Remember, I don’t have any pedigree so special as de Cock’s (and what a name!). No WHO post, no position there. I’m just an independent researcher and journalist. So, what’s to be done?

Do you think they don’t know about this article? You think they haven’t been reading my work for 5 years?

Why haven’t they responded to me personally? Never once has anyone in a position of authority at the WHO or UNAIDS, or the NIH EVER WRITTEN me, saying,:

“Young man, you make some good points, we shouldn’t necessarily use orphans in drug trials; but you’re incorrect about the tests, and here’s the document you need to understand all of this.”

You think they don’t read me? They do. So I’ve been told from within, but they don’t reply. I’ve been attacked, personally, but not in the major and repeated themes of my research. My research having concluded that:

1) These tests have no standard and give no meaningful diagnosis. That they are pseudo-scientific, that they are used to confirm pre-existing biases now couched in “risk groups” of Africans (blacks), “MSM” (gay men), and then the third world.

2) They violate the priniciple of informed consent.

3) The drugs used are FDA Black-Box labeled, and cause permanent damage and death in people who take them.

4) The Aids diagnosis is no more than a brand name applied to the worlds poor, to drug addicts, and to gay men.

And now the WHO has confirmed that these are, indeed and in fact, who is “at risk” for their diagnosis. Why are these people “at risk” for their diagnosis? Because that’s who will allow it.

Here’s a thought for you:

If you were able to candidly and with absolute transparency examine the sexual practices at UC Berkeley, or Cal State San Diego, you would easily find a significantly larger population that engaged in “partner swapping” than you do in any part of Africa. (In some African tribes, it’s called “Polygamy. At college it’s called “Any Friday and Saturday Night.”

If you conducted “hiv rapid testing” in the major US cities, among the poorest, pregnant-est or most drug-abusing women, and extrapolated it to the entirety of the State’s – or Nation’s population – as is done throughout sub-Saharan Africa, I predict that the US would suddenly be in the midst of a massive “Aids crisis.” With hundreds of millions “infected.”

So why don’t we do it? Because, they tell us not to, over and over again in the literature.

“But if the same test was performed on 1,000 white, affluent suburban housewives – a low-prevalence population – in all likelihood all positive results will be false, and positive predictive values plummet to zero.” (AidsAlert 1998)

“Counseling people at low risk [wealthy, white, heterosexual] requires paying particular attention to false positives, that is, to the possibility that the client has a positive HIV test even though he or she is not infected with the virus.”

“If clients are not informed about this fact, they tend to believe that a positive test means that they are infected with absolute certainty …. Emotional pain and lives can be saved if counselors inform the clients about the possibility of false positives.” (Max Plank Institute – Guidelines for HIV testing in Low-Risk Client)

So, more to chew on while we all watch South Africa BAN micronutrient vitamin studies for poor, hungry people. In other words, don’t feed their bodies, don’t help them reconstitute – AZT is the only solution.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7453449.stm

That’s their idea of debate, and the blog author you cited above, is on that committee, and it’s Aidstruth. And their mission is to stop you and anyone else from thinking about, knowing about, or dissenting with that South African position.

R344216
7 months ago
Liam

From the BBC:

“It is declared that the clinical trials conducted in South Africa are unlawful,” Judge Dumisani Zondi said in his ruling.

Matthias Rath and his Rath Foundation promote vitamin pills and minerals which they say can reverse the development of HIV/Aids.

But critics say such trials had led to unnecessary deaths when HIV-positive people stopped using anti-retroviral drugs.

What crtics? Are there really reports of deaths from using vitamin A, C and E and being fed? Go read Rath’s research, and find out.

Nathan Geffen of the Treatment Action Campaign hailed the judgment as a victory for scientific governance, which he said had been contested by the health minister and president. “

So, there’s Nathan Geffen. Of your friend Nick Bennett’s group, Aidstruth, dedicated to the use of Nevirapine and AZT in all Africans in his country.

(Nevirapine, the drug that has caused thousands of toxic reactions and at least, a dozen deaths in Uganda, all reported, and buried in the NIH trials – reported at GNN in The Truth about Nevirapine, and part of an international whistle-blower scandal centered around the NIH dept of Aids, Jonathan Fishbein, the death of Joyce-Ann-Hafford, and the absolute “I could give a shit” attitude of the head of DIADS, Edmund Tramont).

South Africa. Where white Dutch Afrikaners couldn’t tolerate Blacks VOTING or having the rights of CITIZENS through the 1980s.

A judiciary and a people (or at least a vocal actiivist minority therein) who could not wait to embrace the IDEA that these same Blacks, to whom they were forced by world opinion to give the vote to –

that they could not wait to label these people as sexual lepers, based on the scandalously bad research done by American cancer researchers on Gay men who were suiciding through a decade of drug addiction.

And this is the basis for the belief that Africans have Aids. Old, old ideas about who is valuable, and who is not.

And if you don’t believe that, you have this:

“The problems is that all the sero-surveillance data came from pregnant women, and estimates for other demographics was based on that.”

“if the same test was performed on 1,000 white, affluent suburban housewives – a low-prevalence population – in all likelihood all positive results will be false.”

“Our attention is now focused on the considerably large number of the seronegative group (135/227, 59%) who were clinically diagnosed as having AIDS. All the patients had three major signs: weight loss, prolonged diarrhoea, and chronic fever.”

Same test, different diagnosis, because the test is absolutely perfunctory, unnecessary, not required, and not needed for the diagnosis. All that’s needed is for you to believe that African poverty is a fatal sex disease, and then to BAN, legally, interventions to ameliorating the bad health that accompanies that poverty.

R344263
7 months ago
Manu

This news is outrageous, macabre, and in view of all the extremely serious question marks hanging over the general credibility of anything that has to do with “AIDS” right now, nothing short of grotesque.

Who is TAC? An extension of AIDSTruth in South Africa. These organisations are run on pharmaceutical money, run by people who are “activists” with excessive power.

Login

Sign up for the GNN newsletter to get the first word on video premieres and breaking news. signup

Read the GNN FAQ for information about the site, forum rules and other GNN 2.0 information. faq

Optimized for FireFox
To download the Firefox web browser, visit mozilla.com Get Firefox

  • Advertise With GNN
  • SUPPORT GNN! Support GNN

    TEES/DVDS @ GNN STORE

    Buy Our Tees
  • Bloggers' Rights at EFF